As the executive branch slashes foreign aid programs, will Congress step in?
Interview transcript:
Terry Gerton: Foreign aid has probably garnered more headlines in the last two months than it has in the two years. With DOGE’s termination of most of USAID’s grants, and even more recently, the proposed reorganization of the Department of State, we’re seeing a massive realignment of the U.S. strategy when it comes to foreign aid. So Bob, what role has U.S. foreign aid funding played in global humanitarian assistance? Can you give us an idea of the impact?
Bob Powers: Yes, certainly it plays a massive role in one that we believe in greatly. Bread for the World, we focus on hunger. It’s our main mission. How to end hunger in our lifetime. That’s our goal. And a lot of the programs at State and USAID that focus on humanitarian aid, certainly are playing a role into that. So we care a lot about what people are going through throughout the world. Again, our focus is on hunger, but it also includes making sure that folks have clean drinking water, for schools to go to or all the things in a healthy society that we know lead into actually being able to have better lives that go beyond food, but make food available, if that makes sense.
Terry Gerton: Well, let’s drill down a little bit further. So all of this funding disruptions, hundreds of millions of dollars in the near term. What does that mean for people who were previously being helped by these funds?
Bob Powers: Yeah, I don’t think any of us are sure yet. We know that there’s been work stop orders issued from State Department and a lot of the USAID programs, specifically from State F. And that would be work stop orders in the field that we are most concerned about. Again, we’re focused on hunger hot spots here at Bread for the World. A lot of them are in Africa. For instance, we know that up to 1.9 million people are estimated to be on the brink of famine currently, primarily in Gaza and Sudan, pockets of South Sudan, Haiti and Mali, I should say. And we also know that in 2025, 3.5 million young children just in Afghanistan, Terry, are expected to be malnourished. And so this is a big, big problem. The world continues to face the worst famine and hunger crisis in a generation. And according to UNICEF, 45 million children are suffering from severe acute malnutrition, which is immediately endangering their lives. I mean, acute malnutrition, the next step a lot of time is wasting and then death. So we’re very, very concerned. We know a lot of great organizations that have work stop orders then got their waivers and then there’s been a lot of back and forth, but we’re hopeful that a lot these programs are actually functioning again in getting key food aid to people in need.
Terry Gerton: When you give us those examples, I’m thinking, in a world where social media means we have instant communications on virtually any topic, somehow these kinds of issues can still feel far removed and not really part of what our daily lives are all about. But they ought to be, one might think, part of the daily lives of members of Congress who have approved the funding for these programs. But foreign aid is really spread across multiple U.S. government agencies and that means it’s spread across multiple committees in Congress. So when it comes to thinking about what should happen with this money, do you think, I mean, you’re a government relations expert, does Congress have an integrated view of the total aid program?
Bob Powers: So Congress is, I mean, they hold the first, right? We always say that on the Hill. They really do in foreign aid. And right now is appropriation season and so those numbers are being set on what appropriations look like. And with all the cuts, one would think, ‘Well, gosh, what numbers are going to be put forward for foreign aid, but it definitely is an integrated approach. I mean, it’s various House and Senate committees, whether it’s Agriculture Committee that has jurisdiction over things like Food for Peace, McGovern-Dole, huge programs that Bread for the World loves, as well as other funding for State and USAID that is related to Senate Foreign Affairs. I’m speaking in D.C. Lingo here. And also the House Foreign Affairs Committee that we all love to call HFAC.
Terry Gerton: I’m speaking with Bob Powers. He’s the director of government relations at Bread for the World. So this foreign aid bundle, let’s just take it that way, not just USAID, but all of the foreign aid that we give out, it’s really not a zero-sum game, is it? It’s like when you push on a balloon and it looks like it’s less in one place, but the air comes out in another. You could arguably say that there is savings when these foreign aid payments stop. But there are going to be costs down the road, right? How do we get a handle on the deferred cost of stopping these programs now?
Bob Powers: Yeah, well, one of the things we focus on, I just alluded to it a minute ago, and first of all, Bread for the World, we’ve been around for 50 years. We’re actually celebrating our 50th year anniversary. We are started in the church and we are a faith-based organization. We don’t implement programs abroad. We just advocate on hunger. And so that’s an important point to make. But I think, yeah, I mean, it is very important and it’s something that we’re working with Congress on every day.
Terry Gerton: So what are you hearing from Congress as you’re on the Hill talking to different members and advocating for funding programs that reduce hunger? There are probably lots of other people like you from other foreign aid programs who are up there making their case as well, as we are in appropriation season. What are you hearing?
Bob Powers: Well, we know that we are up on the Hill every day. At Bread for the World, we’ve had action alerts on hunger that our members have well participated in. And I think a lot of folks are concerned about greater cuts, but we’re also hopeful. We’ve seen, essentially, USAID altered in a great way and a lot that is moving under State. So we’re really trying to take the high rotary and say, ‘OK, these programs are very important.’ Wherever they end up, we just need them to continue. You know, we need to make sure that Food for Peace, McGovern-Dole, Global Nutrition, that these funding continue. And so what we’ve been doing on the Hill the last few months is sharing, actually not even the last two months on specific appropriation numbers, but we’ve be sharing what we think are appropriate funding levels for a lot of the programs I’ve already mentioned. So we have a lot staff we meet. We work in a very bipartisan way. We always have it read. So we’re meeting with Republican and Democrat staff and we have a lot of concern and sympathetic ears for what’s happening. And we just hope that we hear that concern and sympathetic ear when members are actually going to go vote on these vital appropriations levels.
Terry Gerton: Making the case for hunger relief can be a very emotion-driven response. But there seems like, to me, a little bit of a harder edge to the argument as well, which is it has national security implications. All the places that you mentioned where large populations are at risk of famine or hunger could be very destabilizing as well. Do you find that those kind of arguments resonate in a different way as you’re trying to build support.
Bob Powers: It definitely does. And I think what you’re alluding to is a lot of people call that soft power of being involved in international aid is also keeping what we call bad actors out, countries that are maligned or not necessarily great for democracy or great for a futures country or keep them indebted in a way that we don’t work that way in America. And we’ve always been a generous, prosperous country to help that. But we know that certain countries are trying to buy up water rights in areas of the world, that’s a big concern. And I think having a great presence by the United States, when you see that sack of grains that came from American farmers with USA on it or AID or USDA, I think that’s such a powerful statement of who we are as a country. And we just hope that continues. And yeah, absolutely, it’s a soft power and it is to what we’re doing in the development space. I mean, we of course care about hunger at Bread, but development might be building schools or it might be teaching farmers in desert regions of the world. What are the best crops for them to still be able to self-sustain or move to what we used to call the journey to self-reliance. So I think the vast sweeping nature of humanitarian aid and development is so impactful on the individual life and saving lives, but also keeping Americans safe at home.
Terry Gerton: So you’re supporting what is by nature a very optimistic organization. What do you hope happens in the next appropriation cycle?
Bob Powers: I mean, we’re very hopeful that some of the key nutrition programs on the international side and domestic side, but I know we’re talking about international today, continue to be robustly funded, certainly not zeroed out. And I believe that members of Congress on both sides of the aisle care about hunger, going to take the high road. We believe President Trump cares about hunger and it’s our job to talk about it. It’s our job to get the numbers before Congress. And so, like I said, whether it’s McGovern-Dole that plays a significant role in international school food and feeding programs for preschool and primary school children or whether it’s Food for Peace that actually gets a lot of American commodities abroad to help feed people. Some of these work stop orders, Terry, had literally, there’s been silos of grain pick a country, Africa, that haven’t been able to get to people in need. And so there’s a concern is the grains going to rot before they can actually get it to people. And then there’s also a concern back home for American farmers, pick a great state. I know Kansas sends a lot of their grains abroad and they have sorghum crops right now sitting in silos. And I think a lot of folks are wondering, are those purchase orders going to be canceled or will those grains get to the folks and people in need that they were intended to get to? So and a lot that is about appropriations and getting that funding across through Congress, I should say, I wasn’t going to say across the aisle, but through Congress right now.
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